From: David Shumway <shumway@xxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 11:17:46 -0400
The title refers to an imperative to "discipline and punish" attributed
to the society(ies) the book discusses.
Tim McNamara wrote:
The form of the imperative and the form of the bare infinitive (without
'to') are identical in English - and identical to most present tense forms
are the same, with the exception of third person singular. So it's a
question of interpretation. Given the infinitives in the original French, I
think infinitives are the most parsimonious solution in the English. The
imperative doesn't quite make sense here, does it? He's not enjoining us to
discipline and punish...
On 9/5/09 12:52 AM, "ari@xxxxxxxx" <ari@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
I interpret the verbs as being in the imperative tense.
The verbs in 'Discipline and Punish' are both infinitives, not present
verbs. English has two infinitive forms, with and without 'to'; words
'can', 'must', etc require the bare infinitive as it is called, otherwise
the 'infinitive without 'to''. So from the grammatical point of view we
could have had 'Survey and Punish', though of course there are objections
'survey' on other grounds, as various people have already pointed out.
On 8/5/09 11:33 PM, "David Shumway" <shumway@xxxxxxx> wrote:
The English translation is DISCIPLINE AND PUNISH, not "punishment."
Both terms are verbs, but not infinitives as are those in the French
title. There is no exact equivalent to "Surveiller" in English; it does
not mean surveillance in the usual sense of that word in English.
Moreover a title that used the exact cognates, "To survey and to
punish," would neither be clear nor catchy. Thus the choice of present
tense verbs, for which again, "survey" does not work. Finally, one could
argue that the English title actually better reflects the focus of the
book because "discipline" is a more important concept there than is
Tamir Sorek wrote:
Does anyone can help me to solve the following puzzle: Why did Michel
Foucault ask to translate the title of his book "Surveiller Et Punir"
"Discipline and Punishment" in English, instead of "Surveillance and
Punishment"? Did he think that his French title was misunderstood?
Thank you in advance for your help,
Professor Tim McNamara
Discipline Chair, Linguistics and Applied Linguistics
School of Languages and Linguistics
The University of Melbourne
Tel (+ 61 3) 8344 4207
Fax (+ 61 3) 8344 8990
Foucault-L mailing list
Foucault-L mailing list
David R. Shumway
Professor of English, and Literary and Cultural Studies
Director, the Humanities Center at Carnegie Mellon
Department of English
Carnegie Mellon University
5000 Forbes Ave.
Pittsburgh, PA 15213